Comments on: This Should Wake You Up

By: Donna

Donna — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:35:36 +0000

I did not know that Fred is evangelical, are you Fred? And I am tired of all the debating that goes on in the church. What does the world think of our debates? They find them utterly distasteful and they don’t see nor find Jesus when they see these kinds of things going on. The kids are in bad shape, I have a college student child. Who’s fault is it? Probably mine. I should have taught him more at home like the word tells me to. Should I blame the evangelical or charismatic churches? We have been both. That would be irresponsible, wouldn’t it. Let’s deal in truth. The kids need help, let’s get off our duffs and help them. There is a strong draw toward the charismatic and the theme of prosperity but I don’t think it is because we are looking to lavish it on ourselves, we want to bless God’s church. That is the prosperity we seek, we all do no matter what branch of Christian teaching you are following there is not one of us who wakes up in the morning and seeks poverty. There is not one who seeks to do poorly on his job so he can be demoted to the glory of God, not to mention being an infidel who cannot provide for his own family. I think the attraction is not so much on selfish or excessive prosperity but on the normal kind, that avoids sending us to the government to collect handouts. Normal logical prosperity to pay our bills and be upstanding citizens that might bless others in need, like our neighbors and ultimately to bless and support Israel. That is what the true church is doing. There is not a person on the planet doing financial planning to become more impoverished. There is an attraction even more so to the charismatic churches that are preaching scripture and truth and not basing their messages on conjecture. Churches that are spending most of their messages on truth and the word, learning what the word is teaching by word under men who have obvious annointing of God, is much more attractive than messages on social economics or philosphies on social reforms or social community projects. Let’s not bring the world into the churches, let’s bring the word into it and the world will follow. Right now all they see is a bunch of folks arguing about their denominations instead or refecting the glory of God bringing them to accept the gospel. Jesus hated religion. Let’s get back to truth and truth as Ephesians 4:21 states, truth in Jesus and truth in church. The church needs to see what we have – Jesus – and forget everything else that is dividing us, so that the world (society) will be drawn to Him in us.

By: Mike

Mike — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:47:46 +0000

Eric,

With all due respect, that’s like saying “Pravda” had no agenda. Every newspaper has an agenda or an editorial slant – from CSM to the New York Times. That’s just the way things are.

This article was not in the hard news section, which I will state are very good. it was in the commentary section. It bears little resembelance in it’s tone – an indeed in much of it’s text – to the original articles. Mr. Spencer has disclaimers about it on his own website. Sentences have been not edited, but changed wholesale.

Reports I’ve read (including one at Christianity Today) indicate that CSM edited the article themselves. Mr. Spencer’s comments seem to reinforece that.

I would agree that every pastor in America should read the original articles. Always go to the source. Reading the originals means there’s no need to read the CSM “condensed” version.

By: Heather B

Heather B — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 19:39:24 +0000

I absolutely agree! As one who works closely with teens, I can say without a doubt, that while there are exceptions, we are losing an entire generation. If we don’t step it up and get the true gospel in the hands of this generation, we could likely see the true message die with the previous generation! We will be left with a watered down religion of ideas and theories but little substance or power. *stepping off my soapbox*

By: Eric

Eric — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:41:39 +0000

To be clear, the CS Monitor isn’t a mouthpiece for the CS religion. It’s a reputable newspaper.

The author isn’t CS, he’s a Baptist from Kentucky. The CSM didn’t edit the articles down, the author edited the original 3 posts into a 1500 word version at their request.

Those clarifications made, I wish every pastor in America could be sent a copy of the editorial (and the 3-part series that birthed it) and forced to sit down in a room with their leadership to discuss how they are part of the problem and can be part of the faithful ones who survive the meltdown.

By: Fred McKinnon

Fred McKinnon — Thu, 12 Mar 2009 11:44:10 +0000

Test FaceBook reply

By: fmckinnon

fmckinnon — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:56:41 +0000

RT @tweetmeme This Should Wake You Up | FredMcKinnon.Com http://tinyurl.com/cxvf5j

By: fmckinnon

fmckinnon — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 16:01:14 +0000

New blog post: This Should Wake You Up http://tinyurl.com/cxvf5j

By: Shanon Lewis

Shanon Lewis — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:58:30 +0000

Oh, that's why it seemed familiar – it's by my old friend the IM. Been reading him since before there was blogging!

By: Shanon Lewis

Shanon Lewis — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:57:02 +0000

How odd. I kept trying to figure out if I wrote this article a few years back and didn't remember doing so. My name wasn't anywhere on it. Hmmm. Interesting. I think I've been saying most of this since about '96.

By: fmckinnon

fmckinnon — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:19:26 +0000

Mike,
Awesome reply – I wasn't wanting everyone to take everything in that article at face value. I *DO* see a lot of what he refers to in the quote above, though. I'm seeing it, especially, in our worship, though I'm seeing a trend of worship songs and lyrics that are going deeper in theology and doctrine.

I believe God is changing, moving, and doing something great – but I do think that some of the things in this article are true, warning signs – I see them … a lot. I wrestle them, to some degree, even in my own life and church.

Do I think the church will fail? Nope – it never has, and I've read the end of the Book.

By: Mike Mahoney

Mike Mahoney — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:14:19 +0000

I cannot believe how much traction this is getting. I'm reading this thing everywhere. Why are people giving the CSM any creedence?

It clearly benefits CS to tear down the evangelical churches. Who else questions them, or calls their doctrines into the light? Not the mainline churches.

I don't know about you, but much of our youth has not only a deep faith, but a deep knowledge. They can argue scripture, quote verses, and look at things in historical context. Not only that, but they are hungry for that knowledge.

The worst (and most telling) quote is this: "There are three kinds of evangelical churches today: consumer-driven megachurches, dying churches, and new churches whose future is fragile." If that single quote does not show the bias of this article, I don't know what does. So Mr. Spencer expects his readers to believe that there are NO healthy, growing evangelical churches in America? I have one I'd like to invite him to. Or do I have to?

The CSM article is a heavily edited version of the original series by the author. The original quote above is " Evangelical churches have now passed into a three part chapter: 1) mega-churches that are consumer driven, 2) churches that are dying and 3) new churches that whose future is dependent on a large number of factors." Not quite what was published in the CSM. The original article was much more balanced and thoughtful, I suggest giving it a read here:

http://www.internetmonk.com/